Unlocking Inner Strength: Hypnobirthing & Hypnotherapy w/ Dana McCausland

Embark on a transformative journey as we explore the remarkable world of hypnobirthing and its profound connection to sustainable living. Join us for an empowering discussion with Dana McCausland, a Hypnotherapist & Hypnobirthing Coach, as we uncover the dance between control and release during the birthing process.

In this episode, hosted by Katie Kurpanek - Podcaster & Coach - discover how hypnobirthing empowers individuals to embrace self-control, regulate breathing, and ground themselves amidst the natural fears and pains of birth. Dana's tailored approach helps desensitize anxieties, while creating an inner warrior to guide you through pregnancy, birth, and the beautiful journey of parenthood.

Explore how hypnosis not only enhances the birthing experience but also fosters a more conscious lifestyle. Dana emphasizes the vital role of mental well-being in sustainable living, and how enabling individuals to sustain themselves during birth sets the stage for sustainable living and eco-conscious parenting.

Tune in now and unlock the secrets of hypnotherapy as you empower yourself for an extraordinary birthing experience and a sustainable future!

About Dana:
Hi, I’m Dana McCausland, a Hypnotherapist, Coach, mama, wife, identical twin and human. I enjoy spending time with my family and friends, exploring and appreciating nature, meaningful conversation and helping my clients reach their personal goals!

Contact Info for Dana McCausland:

• Email: dm.mccausland@gmail.com 
• IG: @dana_m_mccausland 
• Website:  www.dana-mccausland.com 

Additional Resources:

• Free Meditation Link: https://www.dana-mccausland.com/meditations 

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Email: katie.thatminimallife@gmail.com
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Transcript

Katie Kurpanek: 0:06

You're listening to all things sustainable, where we unpack topics related to sustainable living, as well as how to apply specific actions to your own life. I'm your eco living coach and podcast host Katie Kurpanek. Let's jump in. Hello my friends, I am so excited to welcome you back to the All Things sustainable podcast especially because today we are kicking off season four. It has been a long time coming if you listen to the little mini bonus series right before this one, I talked about how I just needed to take a bit of a break in between podcast seasons in order to balance some other projects and just life in general. But I have been so eager to dive back into this podcast, it is one of my favorite things to do my favorite part of my job. And you are such an incredible community. And I'm so happy to be here with you. Thank you for joining. So in season four we are officially going to be diving into the topic of eco minded parenting and caretaking. So if you are a parent or a caretaker and you are looking to raise your family as sustainably as possible, you know that involves sustainably balancing your lives your well being and you know, living kind of holistically but then also of course living in a way that is eco friendly and really good for the planet. So we're going to be diving into episodes like sustainably balancing your breastfeeding journey being able to work and breastfeed and all these tips and tricks on how to do that sustainably for your own mental health and sanity and also for the planet and the well being of your child. And we're going to talk about things like creating a non toxic home or nursery just a safe living space that is also like completely natural and organic and just also good for the planet. We're going to talk about meal planning, minimalism, cohousing, like all these different angles of what it could look like to live sustainably with a family. Because of course, the other side of all of this is that this is not a one size fits all kind of deal. I tell this to my clients, I tell this to you all all the time. living sustainably doesn't look the same for everybody. You have to find what works for you and your family. Because if it's not actually sustainable for you, if you can't maintain this way of living, then it's just going to lead to burnout and frustration. And that is not at all what we want. So that is all I'm gonna say about season four. Because this episode today is on the longer side, I totally realize that and thank you for being here with me in this I promise you, you are not going to want to miss a minute of this conversation. Stick with it all the way to the end. We are talking with the incredible Dana McCausland. Today, she is a hypnotherapist and a hypno birthing coach. She is absolutely phenomenal. And I really really enjoyed this conversation. about 50% of the time she talks about like Hypno birthing, and the way that hypnosis can empower you in your pregnancy journey in your birth and your postpartum, all of that. So if you are a parent, and you're or you're going to be a parent, and you're looking for this kind of information, oh my gosh, you're in for a real treat. But on the flip side, she also spends probably 50% of the episode talking about just hypnosis in general, and hypnotherapy and what that is and how it benefits your life, anxiety, all of these things that don't only relate to parenting. So if you are not a parent and you happen to be listening in, you are going to get so much out of this episode as well. So this is so incredible. I'm going to leave that there because we need to just dive into this conversation. Thank you so much for being here. And be sure to check out the episode description for all the resources and the links to things that we referenced within this episode. You can find all of that there. Alright, let's dive in. Dana, I am super excited to have you on the podcast especially because we are kicking off season four, focusing on like eco minded parenting. And when I use the word parenting, it's you know, for parents and caretakers all under that umbrella term. But being eco minded raising sustainable families and your realm of expertise is starting right at the beginning for a lot of people with like pregnancy and birth. I told my listeners a little bit about you in the introduction already. And we'll be covering like hypnosis, hypnotherapy. Hypno birthing, but I would love for you to just first of all, tell us a bit about yourself in your own words and who you are, what you are passionate about, and then who are the beloved people in your life.

Dana McCausland: 4:44

Awesome. Well, thanks so much for having me. This is my first podcast and it's I'm so excited that I'm on here is this is so great. Yeah. Um, so I guess I'll kind of start with a little bit about me and kind of what I'm interested in So, I'm a mom of a 13 month old boys. So, you know, I had to stop myself from when people are like, oh, so tell us about yourself as being like, Well, I'm a mom you know, definitely play the front and center thing of my life right now. And there's no shame about it. So I guess first off, I'm a mama and I, I work in, you know, mental health and wellness. So I'm very interested in in that world, really passionate about it. I love being outside, I love camping. I love just taking a little bike ride with my boy to the neighborhood getting coffee. You know, we don't live a crazy adventurous life, we kind of live a bit of a simple life right now. And I am really just soaking it in. I am also really passionate about sustainability in a way that is, you know, the best that I can do for where I'm at in my life right now. So you know, I'm really interested I love that Denver has a composting program I am you know about composting, whatever, you know, food scraps, we have our yard scraps that we have, the way in which I shop has very much changed. I've really had a goal with my boy to try to buy the least amount of new things possible. Which is how you know we met each other. Your your, I'm sorry, not program what yeah,

Katie Kurpanek: 6:26

it was the clothing for all like Sift and thrift with WeeCycle and Women in Sustainability and myself. Yeah, basically giving like free gently used clothing for babies and toddlers to the community.

Dana McCausland: 6:39

Yes, the SIFT and thrift. So, I mean, that's been a huge kind of fun thing for me is just going to thrift stores, finding used clothing, used items going on Facebook marketplace, if anyone ever writes you back on there ever. So, you know, those are some pretty big parts of my life. Right now.

Katie Kurpanek: 7:00

I love that there are so many different connection points that I'm excited to just keep getting to know you as a person to you. I'm like, there's so many things we could talk about, especially composting I have becomes like a composting nerd. And I love it so much. But that's wonderful. And I'm so happy to have you on the podcast as well. So in this season, specifically, we're gonna have a variety of guest speakers. And they're all going to be expanding on different points, like unique perspectives on what it means to live sustainably as a family, being eco minded parents and caretakers. And so like I said before, your realm of expertise is very unique and often starts for people at the very beginning of their family process. So when I first heard about Hypno, birthing, I was pregnant, I had chosen to go through a natural birth center. And that was the first time I had heard of it. They were offering like a course and having us read through the book. And I have to say it was an absolute game changer for the rest of my life.

Dana McCausland: 8:07

Can I just ask you like, what what was your what were your couple of favorite things about or what felt like the biggest game changer for you about it?

Katie Kurpanek: 8:15

Oh, yeah, I tell everybody that I can who was interested in in this, like, I was absolutely terrified of giving birth. So much so that for a while I didn't even know if I wanted to have kids because I didn't know if I wanted to deal with it and, or, like giving birth to my own kids. And so I was very terrified. I had heard so many horror stories. And then all of the like media portrayals are usually not great. They're not like, you know, gentle, calm birth.

Dana McCausland: 8:44

Yeah, that's not fun and dramatic to watch.

Katie Kurpanek: 8:46

No, no, no, we need the drama, apparently. Right. But I really didn't, I did not know that there could even be such a thing as a gentle and calm and empowered birth. Like, I did not have that. And so this this whole door of education, this whole world that was opened up to me was really the game changer. And then the next level in that was like, realizing that this is possible for me, me being the most scared person, I hate pain of any kind, I don't want to be in pain and I have a low tolerance for it and like the fact that I felt confident and empowered to have this like gentle birth and just enjoy it actually, like that was amazing. And then through all of the mindset practices and everything you do to like get ready for it. And I never given birth before at this point. So I was like, Okay, I don't know if I'm going to do this right, quote unquote, right? And then it was amazing. It was like, I was so happy with my birth experience. And I was like, I never thought that would happen. So that's why it was a game changer.

Dana McCausland: 9:56

Oh my gosh, the all the best reasons all the reasons why I love Doing this really. And did you have a natural birth? Did you have medicated birth? Do you mind me asking?

Katie Kurpanek: 10:04

Oh, I don't mind. No, I had a natural birth. And so at the birth center the like medication and everything wasn't an option. But there was a hospital just like a mile away or less than a mile away if it was good. So I knew I took some comfort in that that, like, if I need it, I could go there. But I went into it knowing like I'm preparing to do just a natural birth, just because I truly like not to have anything against medication. I just wanted to see if my body could actually do what I've been training it to do. Absolutely. That's really the only reason I went into it with that mindset.

Dana McCausland: 10:39

Oh my gosh, absolutely. And, you know, one of the and we'll probably get a lot more into this later with just hypnosis. But one of the biggest misconceptions about Hypno birthing also is that it's only for people who are looking to do natural birth, and at least my style of Hypno birthing, which is going to be you know, lots of different centers have their own styles. I I do personal Hypno birthing. So it's not a big class, it is just one on one knee and healing that talking about what your biggest fears are talking about what your biggest goals are, um, but I actually had unmedicated birth. So and I did, I did Hypno birthing. So I have had unmedicated birth. While I have had medicated birth, I have had C section clients. So it's all across the board. And the biggest thing that I really liked to really hone in on his birth is birth, no matter what it looks like. Right. And I mean, the fact that that Hypno birthing allowed you to be confident and natural birth, oh, that's one of the be one of the many beautiful things and empowering things about Hypno birthing. I actually for my for my birth, I did Hypno birthing as well. I actually did not go to a class I I really wanted to find a I wanted to find a me, I want to find a person that was out there who was doing Hypno birthing, just personal sessions, just a hypnotherapist that did Hypno birthing. For one on one sessions, I couldn't I couldn't find that I couldn't find someone that I related to. But I did go through an app that I liked, and then I recorded sessions for myself. So I was kind of my own birthing hypnotherapist which I don't recommend, but I had an amazing, amazing birth, because I really took all the things that I needed personally from it. And I put it into all of my hypnotherapy recordings for myself and my practices to help self hypnosis as well. But my goal was my ultimate goal in my birth was to be calm. That's what I wanted. And I didn't it was my first birth as well, my I was not even hoping I got myself to a place where I was in acceptance of whatever I needed I was going to do. So I was looking to do a natural unmedicated birth. And I took, you know, a class aimed at that being the end, which I always recommend, you know, birthing class, taking whatever you would like to do, I took a natural birthing class. And then when I got down to it, during transition, I decided that I would like to medicate it. And I had no regrets. It was it was beautiful. I had the most beautiful just like you the most beautiful, awesome, empowered, calm birth, and there were no complications upon being medicated, which is, you know, knock on wood. That was, that was awesome, because I know that that can happen. That was one of the big reasons I didn't want to have medication. But it just it it kind of slowed, you know, and that's, that's what I really love about it is it can we have a birth idea, right, or, you know, a birth plan. But for me, I really liked the birth plan to look like something that can feel a little bit flexible. Yes, yep. Yeah, because we just don't know what's going to happen.

Katie Kurpanek: 14:14

Mm hmm. And that was even the Hypno birthing book that I read in preparation for my birth that went with the course that I was taught it. That was a huge point that I'm so glad. Yeah, that like you, your birth plan is really just to like help you feel prepared. But it was a plan that encompassed all of the things that could happen. So I had a plan for what I wanted it to be like if I you know, did go all the way through unmedicated. Then there was like, you know, here's part B or or a spin off of the plan. If you know, I'm medicated. Here's my plan. And then if I need a C section, here's that plan. And it was kind of just like, covering all the bases so that my partner and I and anyone else who was on our team Our birthing team could feel like we are on the same page and communicate well and advocate for ourselves. And I loved that. I thought that was so empowering.

Dana McCausland: 15:09

Yes, that's absolutely empowering. And, you know, I think that that's what is when Hypno birthing is really supportive in that way. It's, it's amazing. And I don't know of any specific programs that I'm, you know, talking badly about by any means. I just really love the idea of it is one of the it's interesting, because the birthing process is a very empowering control of self and also a complete release of control and so many other ways. Yeah, it's this kind of dance around of control, right? Because we can be in control of self, we can be in control of our breathing, right, we can be in control of how we are experiencing something, we aren't necessarily in control of what baby wants to do. Right? Or, you know, if something starts to change within our bodies, that, you know, we we don't control with our minds, right, but, but to be able to hone in and ground south and breathe, and move into a place in the mind that feels safe, and comforting. That's really empowering. And that doesn't mean that we're not ever afraid. Yeah, that doesn't mean that fear is not because fear is a natural part of birth. Yes. You know, that fear is motivating. Sometimes it can be if it's not overpowering, right, there are natural parts of birth the pain is a natural part of the pain tells us what's happening. Right and, and motivates us to push into keep things moving. So in Hypno, in my style of Hypno birthing we do work with pain specially for for the natural birth process, but also for for medicated birth as well. I had a walking epidural. So for me, I felt the pain of birth. Basically, once my son went past the pubic bone, right, so I felt the Ring of Fire, I felt obviously, I didn't have unmedicated birth, so I don't have anything to compare it to. But it felt like I could feel everything. Yeah. The work that I did with pain in the work that I do with pain for for unmedicated births, natural births. I use those tactics, right. So I do a hypno epidural, and it is something that is really quite magical. We can have a numbing sensation wherever we want to put it. Wow. And that's done under hypnosis. And I'm curious, actually, so you did a group Hypno birthing experience? Yes. So in that experience, they did group hypnosis. So you were you guys all hypnotized? Kind of at the same time in a group setting?

Katie Kurpanek: 18:04

No. So actually, this is, okay. Hold on. Before I even answer that. I feel like I'll answer that. But then we need to like maybe take a few steps back. Because there are probably a lot of listeners on the call who are in a similar spot that I am that I'll explain in a minute. And there's a few that are even more like brand new. They don't even know what some of these

Dana McCausland: 18:26

terms are that we are using. I should explain what hypnosis is to Yeah,

Katie Kurpanek: 18:29

because Because to me, where I am coming from the group session did not really have like, any form of hypnosis. I don't think to my understanding, we did not, it was more like we read through the book. And we talked about it. And our instructor taught about a lot of like the components of the book and like expanded on it and answered questions. And then we were given audio tracks to listen to you on our own time and just kind of like, put ourselves into more of a meditative state. But I don't know if I was ever even given the language like to call that hypnosis. So that's where my understanding is. And I feel like there's listeners on this call who don't even like, like

Dana McCausland: 19:11

our Yes, very good to start from square one. Yes, yes. Okay. So this is going to be a big difference from what I do in my practice versus going to a group Hypno birthing class. And you know, I appreciate the fact that they weren't saying that it was more of a meditative state that you were going to meditate the state of meditation that you can reach is can be the same state that you get into in hypnosis, but in my recordings unless I have put someone in hypnosis physically, I don't call it recorded. hypnosis work recorded hypnotherapy. I call it recorded meditation. So the big difference. First of all, I'm gonna explain what hypnosis is. So hypnosis is a state that we go into naturally, right before we fall asleep at night, right before we wake up in the morning. We Go into it multiple times a day. It is not woo-woo magic. It is not anything that I'm, you know, putting on someone, it is a complete natural state that the brain goes into complete natural waves brainwaves. Very relaxing state that the brain goes into. So what I do in this room is I just create that state by getting you really relaxed. And so if you think about going into the state, when you're about to fall asleep, you kind of start to dream, or you kind of start to the imagination starts to get really kind of open and vivid. And you can remember things extremely well, where you start getting really random kind of thoughts or random visualizations. That's the subconscious mind starting to enter the picture. So that in that state, you're still conscious. So if someone were to say, Hey, Katie, where are your car keys? In that state, you could still know where they are an answer, but be kind of in this state where the subconscious mind is also entering the picture. So that is a state of hypnosis. And in that state, you are extremely, you are more open to be to the things you want to be open to. So I'm gonna clarify that. As a hypnotherapist, I am not going in and being like, you're gonna give me a $50 tip, the only thing that would do is make you come out of hypnosis, it would trigger the conscious mind, and it would make you come out of hypnosis, and you would never come back to see me because I broken your trust. Right? Yeah. So it makes you very open and suggestible to, to what you feel comfortable with. Right. And that's why it's really important to create a relationship with your hypnotherapist, I don't go into a first session and be like, we're going to change all the things that we're going to unblock all the blocks, we're going to get down there and discover things that takes time, we have to first formulate a relationship, the first session looks like a lot of getting to know each other, a lot of new me explaining what it is and answering any questions they may have. And then us just getting into hypnosis the first time, which is going to be a lighter state of consciousness, a lighter state of hypnosis, the conscious mind is going to be more present that first time. And as we go in more and more, the subconscious mind starts to enter the picture more as the conscious becomes more comfortable to relax, to know that it's safe to know that it doesn't have to be fully in the driver's seat, it can kind of lead up. Does that make sense?

Katie Kurpanek: 22:33

It makes total sense. And, and I love that you talk about like the relational part of that, because I mean, our bodies, and our mental state and everything, it's always instinctively tried to protect us. You know, that's just how it works. And even in, you know, pregnancy and birth and everything, like our bodies will tense up if we start to feel afraid, because we're naturally like trying to protect ourselves from that and beyond the defense. And so yeah, that just makes sense to me. And I love that you're also talking specifically about how it is not some sort of like magic or voodoo stuff. And it's a big misconception. That's really all I had heard about with, like hypnosis before I even heard of the book, you know, Hypno birthing for my pregnancy. So like, yeah, I would have never ever thought anything different for hypnosis.

Dana McCausland: 23:29

Absolutely. It's, it's so completely misunderstood. And it's really, you know, people who don't understand it, might see it as kind of woowoo stuff pseudoscience. It's sure it's a very, once you start to actually understand what it is. It's so different than how it's portrayed in media. And it's so different than even, you know, people talk about the CIA, you know, using it for Mind Control, and it's like, well, those people also were heavily drugged, right. I mean, if you're mixing, you know, psychedelics, acid, whatever, and then also putting them in a deeply suggestible state. Yeah, that's different than that's a lot different than what we're doing in this room. Right. So yeah, it's, it's, it's very, it's so much safer than and it's also so wonderful. I call it a massage for the brain, because it feels so good. It feels so good. It's a very, very meditative state. And depending on your suggestibility, there's different types of suggestibility. There's people that are really more in the conscious mind. They're very analytical. They're very they intellectualize everything. And those people are tend to be a little bit less than the body. They tend to feel a little bit less than the body when we go into hypnosis. And then there's people who are very Are Easy, easily suggestible. But there have also they tend to be people that are very kind of empathetic. So for instance, one of my questions is, if I talk about biting into a Sour Lemon, does your mouth begin to water, those are my more suggestible people. And those people are more kind of in tune with their bodies, they tend to feel more in the body when we go into hypnosis. So if I say, you're, you're feeling really light, in fact, you're feeling so light that you could float away, those people are going to feel that in their bodies. If I talk to someone who's really intellectual, they're going to fight me on it. And in their mind, they're going to be like, I don't feel that way. She can't tell me what to do. So

Katie Kurpanek: 25:35

I am. That's me

Dana McCausland: 25:37

and me, actually. Okay. And I just I suggestibility has changed since doing this. I'm a lot more suggestible than I used to be. Which is kind of funny, you think it'd be the other way, but. But for those people, I don't, I don't tell them what to do, I let them decide what to do. So So for them, I would say, maybe you start to notice relaxation, you're moving into the body. And that feels however it feels however you want it to feel today, because you're giving yourself permission to feel that, right. So, so anyway, I can go off on a whole long tangent about it. But but we do the same thing in Hypno birthing. So my hypnotherapy clients, which range from the woo-woos in the world, to extremely grounded on this earth type of people that are not interested in in spiritual guides, or, you know, anything like that maybe they're coming to me because they have a phobia. And they need to get past this phobia in order to go do something for work. Or in order to get the COVID vaccine, which that would, I've definitely worked with those people before who had a fear of needles, right? No matter what you're seeing you for the first session is going to look pretty much the same, which is going to be us getting to know each other, us deciding if you know this feels right for you, right, like if you feel comfortable with me, if I'm your person for this. And then if so, getting into hypnosis, for the first time, just introducing it, just getting into a space that feels really nice and relaxing. And I'll probably give you a tool, because I want you to walk away with something. But that's going to look the same for pretty much anything you come to see me with but then afterwards, specifically for hypnobirthing, we really I have a formula kind of a plan that we get into. But it's going to be really tailored to that person. If if a person comes in and they are highly anxious, let's say they're they've worked with therapists for years, and they're a very anxious person, but their birth is really triggering that anxiety. Well, we're going to talk about all the things that are anxious about, we're also going to talk about all of their goals that they would like to have, and also what their birth looks like if they're wanting to do natural birth, we're really going to get into some of that hippo Hypno epidural type of stuff. But we're first going to really get to know before we get into any of that, we're going to get to know what they would like to do. And we're going to help to desensitize whatever's feeling like it's blocking them, as well as exploring it too. And then we're going to really get into those wonderful places of let's create the most wonderful empowering place for birth for you. And that's something that we can go back into, anytime there feeling any of that anxiety come back up, as well as something that actually I discovered through a client, we created a warrior, an inner warrior for her. And now I'm going to use that with all my clients. And that inner warrior is with you, as you're starting to, you know, through pregnancy, through birth, and then that warrior moves through you into being a mama or a parent. Because that that doesn't just end right birth opens up it cracks open this entire new you. But that doesn't just stop there, it continues and, and there are struggles in parenthood too, that that warrior can really keep helping you through through that process. So yeah, those are just some of the things that I really love about doing one on one sessions. Not that I would be against doing a group session, but I just love working with people one on one and hearing their stories and deprogramming the horror stories that society wants to put on us too, because that's a big thing. As soon as you're pregnant, everyone wants to tell you your craziest story about their friend who gave birth on the highway. You know, what, what, whatever crazy story they can come up with. They want to tell you about it. And that is not yours. So there's a lot of work we do also with deprogramming any story that is not your own. Because you have your own story and that doesn't look like anyone else's.

Katie Kurpanek: 29:54

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love everything that you're talking about So So much. I have 1 million questions for you

Dana McCausland: 30:03

Oh please, hit me with it

Katie Kurpanek: 30:06

I'm trying to figure out where to go next. Okay, because I think we're gonna come back to more of what it looks like to actually work with you and how this goes. And then I also I'm definitely curious to hear more about like your birth, you know, other Hypno birthing experiences that you've had, maybe with people that you've worked with, and also, of course, how this connects to sustainability in general, like, what's your take on how this is connected to sustainable living because I know I have my own take. But before we even get into all of that, I would love to just hear how did you get into this in the first place because this to me is such a unique calling. This is not something that a lot of people can do or would want to take on. So how did you get into this like what drew you into the realm of hypnotherapy? Calling all breastfeeding parents who pump Are you tired of playing freezer Tetris with your breast milk storage bags, say goodbye to the frustration and make the most of your freezer space with the amazing MAMMaway freeze it flat tool when it comes to storing breast milk. Typical storage bags can be a hassle they refuse to freeze flat on their own, causing a jumbled mess and wasting precious space in your freezer. But we've got the perfect solution for you. The man away freeze it flat tool is designed to revolutionize your breastmilk storage experience. This simple yet genius tool will save you time space and sanity. No more stressful games of Tetris or stacking bags between cookie sheets trying to get them to freeze flat. The freeze it flat effortlessly creates a flat and organized storage solution for your breast milk. Enjoy maximum freezer space and bid farewell to leaking bags and wasted liquid gold so no more crying over spilled milk breast milk that is created by a local mom right here in Colorado and proudly made in the US the MAMMaway freeze it flat tool is committed to sustainability. They use recycled plastic ensuring less waste all around it's a win for your milk and a win for the planet. Whether you use single use or reusable breast milk storage bags, the freeze it flat works like a charm. It's versatile and compatible with any bag making it the ultimate breastfeeding hack. I'm a proud MAMMaway affiliate so when you purchase through the link in the show notes you are supporting two mama owned businesses at no extra cost to you. join the countless moms who have embraced this innovative tool and make your breastfeeding journey even more amazing. Keep pumping that liquid gold mama you are truly incredible. Don't miss out on this game changing solution for breast milk storage. Click the link in the episode description to get your own freeze it flat today. Now let's get back to our show.

Dana McCausland: 32:55

You know that is such a good question it I went to school for psychology. I have always had a calling in my life to work with people I am an Aquarius. I'm really big on life purpose. And I knew ever since I was a little kid, this sounds ridiculous. But I was either going to work with people. And I don't know if I knew what therapy was probably not as being like a kid in the early 90s. But I knew I wanted to help people or I wanted to be a fashion designer and I was extremely adamant on being one of those if not both. School, I consider myself a very emotionally intelligent person. School was always really difficult for me I was I was one of those kids that you hear about that school is not tailored for every type of learner. I probably would have kicked ass in Montessori or something but it school was really hard for me. I'm also an identical twin and my twin was always school is just a lot easier for her. And that was hard kind of growing up and not really knowing what emotional intelligence was. I was very empathic detrimentally, so very shy and so comparing myself to my sister and just being in school and it always been so difficult and getting you know, C's constantly when she was getting, you know, A's and rarely B's even. I mean, I got D's and F's to let's be honest. I made it into college, I would assume older, which I was really proud of myself for and I studied psychology, which I absolutely loved. But it was and I, I got through it in four years. You know, my GPA was fine. Um, nothing to write home about. But you know, I absolutely did it. But afterwards, I was so burnt out from school that I just was like, I don't want to go to grad school. I cannot do this again. I need to take a break. It was very daunting to me. So I was like, you know, I'm going to just kind of do my own thing. I actually started independent fashion line. I started making leather bags for a while. Oh, I kind of dabbled in all the things that I thought would bring me into, you know, feeling like I was purposeful. And it did. I'm, I love doing that stuff. I mean, I think there's so much to be said about being creative. But more and more, we just started the world started to just need more, you know, I just wasn't really finding passion and purpose in things, and you want to be honest. And I was really, I took the GRE, I got into grad school twice I, I referred it or I'm sorry, deferred it twice. I just was not ready to do it. And I ended up going to a therapist that I loved so much. She's amazing. And she was trying to, you know, work with me through it. And she was like, You know what, I just have an idea for you. Have you ever heard of hypnotherapy? And it was like, a lightning bolt just struck me from my head, down through my toes. And I just knew that, that's, that's happened to me very rarely, that happened to me when I met my husband. And that happened to me with hypnotherapy, to have the kind of, like, the biggest kind of loves that I found in my life. And, um, I was like, I don't even know what that is. And I know that that's what I'm gonna do. And she was so awesome. She was kind of had some knowledge about it and had a school that she really liked. And so I took a year certification in it. And it was just so nice, because it just wasn't all of the, for lack of better word, like bullshit that I didn't really want to be learning about. But you have to kind of take a ton of these different classes that just wasn't what I was passionate about. And I just got straight to the meat of what I actually cared about. And I, I mean, very, very much succeeded through that course. And it just felt like it was what I meant. It was what I was meant to do that felt so much easier than anything I've ever done, because I was so passionate about it. So that's kind of how I got into hypnotherapy. And then I had always wanted to look into Hypno birthing, but to be honest, I felt like and I would ask, absolutely never judge a hypnotherapist that had never given birth. But of course, we judge ourselves harshly than anyone else. And I just was like, I don't feel like I can do Hypno birthing until I go through birth myself. So doing so, and doing kind of kind of creating a program while I was going through my pregnancy experience. Guided with a app that I do really like but it just was not personalized, it all is probably kind of similar, like recordings, you know, and they were very helpful, but it just wasn't personal. So that really empowered me seeing how much that positively affected my birth to go in and be like, I could do this. But even better, yes. Even so much more personal. So what someone is going through and know what kind of suggestibility type they are, you know, not so generalized Not, not just giving out, you know, general cues of you're going to feel powerful birth is going to flow, you know, whatever those are, I want to know what makes you feel empowered, I want to know what words trigger you, I want to know, you know, all of those things to make this so much more impactful for you.

Katie Kurpanek: 38:29

Wow, that sounds like one of the most thoughtful, considerate, like incredible professions you could be in but also who's gonna work with you like someone who would work with you, I feel like they are going to feel so cared for in a way that other people in their life or other professions that they would be interacting with aren't going to care for them at that level most of the time. And that just feels like such a gift to offer the world and to be part of. I mean, my husband and I are hopeful for another kiddo. And so I'm already like, keeping behind for sure. I'm like, Please work with me whenever and if ever that happens, but always open.

Dana McCausland: 39:12

Well, thank you. I so appreciate that. That's my goal. I mean, honestly, that's why I do this. That's why I do this work and, and, you know, no one's birth is experiences the same. I am not here to say that. Once you go through birth, you're a changed person and, and you you want to do it again or anything, everyone is absolutely unique. But for me personally, it was such an incredible spiritual awakening experience for me. I mean, I could cry I'm gonna stop myself from crying right now. But honestly, I it was such a beautiful thing that I was like, I can't not incorporate this into my practice. Whenever I get a prospective mama client or birthing person client, you know, they don't always identify as a mom but um It just, it makes me almost like, there's just something really special about that client that comes out, I just want to like energetically, like snuggle them, you know, you know, I just, I, it's such a, you know what it is, it's such a vulnerable place. It's such being pregnant, being in a space where you are going to birth a human, you know, especially the first time but it could be, you know, the fifth time, it's still vulnerable. It's such a vulnerable space. And I just, I am so honored if someone feels like they want me on their team of of caretaking, you know, employment of birth, it's just such a special world to be in.

Katie Kurpanek: 40:46

Vulnerability is like the perfect word to describe that for sure. That space that you're holding for them, and what they are willing to share with you that is so vulnerable. It takes so much like courage on each person. And I'm so glad that you are, you know, putting in so much effort into fostering such a safe and caring space for them to do that. What are some of the most powerful cases or clients or I don't know what what is, but the some of the most powerful stories maybe that you've been able to hold? If you could, I guess for time sake, maybe even just pick one or two? I'm curious, absolutely,

Dana McCausland: 41:22

I'll just I'll just tell you about one of them. Because I'm not gonna say her name, but I know that she would mind me sharing her story, because if you go to my website, her story is actually on my Hypno birthing page, her kind of whole story that she wrote out for me and her, her experience of working with me. But she is, and I relate to her because I've struggled with anxiety my whole life too. And honestly, doing this work, has empowered me so much hypnotherapy can be such an amazing tool for anxiety, but she's been a very anxious person her whole life. And she's had a lot of struggles and some trauma that she inherited from actually when her mom was pregnant with her. And she was she's been doing really, really well on her journey. But but this was kind of a trigger, I guess you would say like birth felt very triggering for her anxiety. And she also very, very much wanted to do natural birth. That was her big goal. And we definitely worked on that idea that birth is birth, no matter what. And she just, I, you know, the reason that I feel like her story is so powerful is because I just, every time I saw her, I just could sense and feel her anxiety melting away, and I just could feel her empowered, war yourself, just grow more and more with every single session. And she, she just had that I think that the big thing too, that I bring this story up is that I think it was two weeks, maybe it's two weeks before birth, maybe it was even a week. Maybe it was a couple of weeks before her birth her her baby was breech. Okay. They're trying everything to turn them around. And trying, trying, trying and she was, as you can imagine, really disappointed. Because they were they were gonna have to do a C section if he didn't turn himself around pretty soon. So, um, it was I think we had one or two sessions before, she ended up having a scheduled C section. And by the, you know, the first time she told me that we weren't going to most likely be doing natural birth, not we her I'm not with you in the birthing room. But when, you know, she told me that it was going to be different than she expected. We went through a mourning session, you know, we had a session with clients, she was very upset, and I was absolutely okay. And we rolled with the punches and whatever, you know, we brought her to a very relaxing space, a very, you know, guided space of allowing that, that knowing of birthing birth to wash over her even more so. And she ended up feeling so empowered, and her C section and all the work that we had done, it was not for nothing. Wow. Yeah, very much. You know, Aleut, it was very inclusive, to whatever that birth experience is going to look like. Because the biggest disservice I can do for you is to go through all of this work and then you feel unprepared at the end because something changed. Right? Right. That is the biggest disservice that I feel like I can do for my clients. So even though the the, at the very last minute, everything changed. It still was the birth that she wanted. I can't remember we choose some very specific words that we do anchor fingers, which is anchor like a ship anchor. Some people think I'm saying anger fingers, and I'm like, very much the opposite. But we choose three words. And it's these you put your fingers together. It's something that we empower under hypnosis. So it's a very grounding exercise. It's a tool that I usually give honestly, most of my clients our first session, but I can't remember what her three words were that we use, but they all felt like they were absolutely accessible to her even though her birth experience changed completely.

Katie Kurpanek: 45:33

Wow. That is incredibly powerful. And again, like, what a gift to you, and her baby and the way that she's bringing him into the world and the way that she felt about that experience. That is so, so powerful. I'm so excited about the work that you do and what you offer.

Dana McCausland: 45:53

Thank you. Well, you know, actually on that note, I want to answer one of your questions about how this kind of relates to sustainability because yes, that very much alludes to what I feel most impactful. Why this is impactful for sustainability?

Katie Kurpanek: 46:13

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Dana McCausland: 48:11

So with Hypno birthing, and honestly with hypnosis in general, but with Hypno birthing, if we can have a birth in which we are feeling empowered, calm, relaxed, whatever is going to help us to feel the most grounded that we can feel in a space that is can be so on grounding, right in a space that is so transformative to your whole life. If we can flow into that space, then you are going to be in a much better mental space for this next leg of the journey. Right? Then it's going to feel it feels like you were totally out of control. And it was a horrifying experience. And you didn't know what was coming and you felt totally dysregulated right if you have some regulation that you can bring with you into this next leg of your journey, that is going to be an amazing gift to give yourself but also if you are a person that is is trying to be eco conscious if you are trying to raise your family in the most sustainable way that is possible for you. If you are trying to raise eco minded children and children that respect the earth, you have to be in a space where you can do that for yourself first. Right? And if you are in this kind of starts to allude into just hypnotherapy in general, if you are burnt out, if you are walled up, if you are giving giving giving if you are stressed about where this earth is going to if you are worried about bringing your children into this world all these things that you know you and I have talked about off you know this podcast you're not going to do it yourself or anyone any favors by being completely hopeless, completely burnt out. That is where mental health engine enroll is a huge part of sustainability, you have to sustain yourself before you can create any kind of betterment in the society we live in, because we're going against the grain here. People that are eco minded people that want to see change people that are doing the things that that matter in their own homes, that takes energy to go against the grain and to go against the easily laid out spaces that society has created that just are plunging us deeper into the hole that we're in. Right. So that is the biggest part of why I think that hypnotherapy, mental health practices, wellness practices, in general are so incredibly important in anyone's journey with sustainability.

Katie Kurpanek: 50:48

Absolutely, 100%. That's so beautifully said. And I cannot agree more. I'm so glad that you expanded on that. Thank you so much.

Dana McCausland: 50:57

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And that's something that in you know, I've had a journey with, with my, I've definitely gone through, you know, the Eco dread the climate change, Doom, all of those things that if you are a educated person in what's going on with the climate, I'm sure you've gone through the wringer with, right. And it is kind of this journey that we go on, sometimes it feels like, we are so hopeful. And we are so excited. And we are so happy to be on this side of the history books and the people that are pushing this movement forward. And then sometimes you feel like you're just pushing against a brick wall, and nothing is changing, and everything sucks and the world is ending, right? When you're in that space, you need help. And when you are in a better space, it's even helpful to to keep that going by making sure that you're not providing from it. An empty tank.

Katie Kurpanek: 52:01

Yep. I'm it's so funny actually, this was not planned. But it's so funny to me that this is the direction we've taken in this conversation, because the three episodes right before this one are a little like bonus, you know, three part mini series about change coaching and like seeing sustainable as in long lasting and able to maintain change in your life. And I talked to a therapist who's also a change management strategist. And so it's just such funny timing. But anyone who's listening, if you're curious about learning, you know more about that direction, those three episodes would be so connected to what we've just been talking about. But this perfectly timed. I'm so excited. I wish that we had so much time to just talk about so much more of what you shared, we could go so in depth, but I do want, I want to go into two, I think two more things before our time is up together. So I want to go back to some of the common misconceptions or like myths, maybe about hypnotherapy. Not so much hypnobirthing maybe, but hypnotherapy for sure, you've already shared, you know, probably the biggest ones that a lot of us may have come up against. But we could talk a little bit more about that. And then also, you know what it likes to what it looks like to specifically work with you as we bring it in for a landing. So you shared some of the misconceptions that are around like hypnosis being out of the person's control, or you know, messing with their mind, kind of woowoo magic. Another one that comes to my mind, at least is that so when I was learning about Hypno birthing, I guess this does connect to Hypno birthing specifically. Um, I thought that in order to have a gentle, calm and powered birth, using this, like strategy, and, you know, toolkit, that I would be very calm as in like, just quiet. And I think for a lot of people, that is their experience. And I think it's so beautiful, but like you talked about before, birth is birth, and it's your story, not anyone else's. And so I definitely learned through my experience that I was not as quiet as I thought I was going to be towards the end once I hit the transition phase. So there's different phases for anyone who doesn't know, there's different phases of your labor. And when you get to the transition phase, that's exactly what it sounds like. Where like your body is really kicking it into gear you are ready to give birth soon. And so that's a huge turning point. And so up until that point, my labor I don't know if you were to count from start to finish, like the very first contraction or surge that I was feeling. It may have been 24 hours, but it was so light at the beginning. And all the way up until transition, I was very calm, very quiet, very like, exactly what I envisioned going through all of my like meditations and everything. And then transition hit and change changed the game changer. Yep, it was so different. But I say that to make the point that I still very much loved my birth experience, I still felt like it was a gentle and empowered birth experience. And beautiful. I was just louder because some people just I guess, have the urge to, like, push that energy out of their body vocally. And I had to have from my gut like, my my midwife, she was using the phrase that I roared my baby out of me that she said,

Dana McCausland: 56:03

it's what you do, though, it's natural, that's special, especially unmedicated. Right? Like, it's gonna look different if you have an epidural, versus if you are going completely unmedicated. And that is a part of the birth process, the sounds that you make the guttural noises. I mean, if you go, if you look at a document or memory of animals getting birth, they are making noises, because you are actually pushing by making those noises, that that guttural sound it is it is motivating to keep you going Emotionally, it is empowering. But it also actually is a push. So when you are making that sound, it is actually helping to push. So that's yes. So that might be a common misconception that if you go into Hypno birthing, and you listen to us talking about how our births were calm and beautiful and relaxing, you might that's not all of it. That's yeah, that's, that's the things that we take away from it. But it is a very dynamic experience. You know, and it's funny, because it's funny, you mentioned that because I'm in my birth, I in my mind, I was Zen, AF, right, like I was in the space and I was, you know, calm and relaxed. And I have an identical twin, who was part of my birth team, with my husband, and she was like, oh, no, you were a raging bitch. Like, she was like, You were kind of she's not a raging bitch, but, but I was she was like, You are the most direct, like, not your Dana self that I have seen, which is empowering. It is. Um, you know, if someone asked you a question, you were extremely, you know, not not your normal self, just very direct, very well, however you were feeling that was what was on the table. And I didn't even remember that to be honest. But that's not what matters. What matters is what you are internally, what's happening internally for you, right and ni feeling calm, that helped my that helps to regulate my nervous system. And if my nervous system can be as regulated as possible, right, like, it's not going to be me, feeling so relaxed, I'm falling asleep. But if I can have a regulated nervous system that is going to keep that body mind connection, going where my brain is going to say, Okay, we're okay, we are not in a crisis. And my body's gonna say, Okay, we are breathing, we are not in crisis, I was having such big breaths, that my throat, the biggest thing I remember after birth is that my throat was so sore. And so dry, being in Colorado, and taking these big, deep breaths all the time to regulate my nervous system. But that's honestly the big deep breaths. Were one of the biggest things that I can say helped me to feel so empowered within myself.

Katie Kurpanek: 59:02

Mm hmm. Yeah. So I've noticed kind of two themes that keep coming up that are tied together with with what we both just shared that empowerment for sure. And then also, I feel like you found your voice and I found my voice in a way that that was not normally vocalize Yes. Yeah. So interesting that like, I do think that for both of us, sounds like a very empowering experience. I think it does still fall under the label of, you know, calm and gentle birthing. Because I think there was a sense of like, control that goes with that empowerment that we both felt like there was for me, there was not one time in the whole labor and birthing process, that I felt like I can't do this. It wasn't until literally right before he was born. I said one time I don't know if I can do this because he was literally like, like right after I said that within like five more pushes he was out. I think because we felt empowered, we felt that we had a sense of control. That's like the gift that hypnotherapy and Hypno birthing also offers, and adds to the gentleness of the situation because it doesn't feel like necessarily an emergency situation. And obviously, everyone's different, and there are those legitimate emergency situations that people need to go through. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think I think that's just the thing that with Hypno birthing, you don't typically feel like it's an emergency situation. And even with my like, guttural sounds, it wasn't like what you see in the media where it's like screaming pain out of control. I hate this. It was

Dana McCausland: 1:00:53

Like, no, not at all. No. I love that. You say that. Because I talk about control with self with a lot of people that I see for whatever reasons, they're looking for hypnotherapy, when we are feeling like we have control over yourself, we are tapped in first of all, we are trusting it creates immense trust with himself. It is a superpower. Honestly, feeling like you have control over yourself is absolutely a superpower. And that is something that I give in suggestion to all of my my Hypno birthing people. But yeah, it is absolutely. I think being able to be present with self to be able to tap into how strong you are. And because it shows your strength, if you are, are in control of self. That is that shows how strong you are, if you've ever doubted it, right. So I love that you bring that up, because that's actually one of my absolute favorite things about Hypno birthing and about hypnotherapy in general.

Katie Kurpanek: 1:02:03

It is so I love that. Yeah, strength is the word that you used. I did not think that I would be as strong as I was, I didn't even know I had that strength in me. And I know that so many people I've talked to who have had, you know, similar experiences, but very much their own experience is different from mine. But they felt that same way they felt like they found a strength within them that they didn't know they had. And that is just so cool like that, oh

Dana McCausland: 1:02:33

my gosh, it's magical. That's what I love about this so much too. And you know, I think a lot of the more I don't I hate saying like horror stories with birth, I just, I can't think of a better word for it at the moment. But a lot of the birth stories that I hear where it wasn't a positive experience is people going into it, not really having a trust with self, and also not having a any kind of idea what's going on, maybe they just go in being like, I don't really know how this is go. I just I just trust Western medicine and not that I not that I don't trust Western medicine. It's not about that. But I really think that going in with building a relationship with South in a relationship to this complete new experience that you have no idea what it's really going to be like until you're there. Building an idea that you can trust yourself through something that's such an unknown is just an absolute game changer and something that every birthing person should be equipped with. Because I think it's so necessary.

Katie Kurpanek: 1:03:48

So there's a huge importance in coming into this experience as educated and prepared as possible. And one thing that jumps to my mind immediately is that the level of education and preparedness is totally dependent on how accessible that is to you. Like what kinds of resources there are around. I mean, you even said that when you were looking for what you wanted for yourself like this type of one on one hypnotherapy support for hypnobirthing you couldn't find you kind of had to just make it up as you went along. And you've created the program that you offer now. So I'm thinking through people who are listening to this, their various levels of accessibility to resources and where they live even geographically and levels of privilege. And you know, there's so many factors could you share as we bring this in for a landing like one to three actionable steps that listeners could take to learn more about hypnobirthing or even just hypnosis for mental health and well being in general, that could be accessible to them, hopefully

Dana McCausland: 1:05:00

Absolutely, absolutely. So, um, something that I'll just say about my practice is I do sliding scale. So I have a limited capacity of sliding scale given that I can only work two and a half days a week. But once my son is in daycare, well preschool and then school, that'll definitely be opening up more, but I have that as well as for your listeners, actually, I put a free hypnosis, I'm going to call it a meditation, because I don't want to claim to put anyone in hypnosis unless I've actually put them in. But it is in the style of hypnosis that I do. But I have a free hypnosis, um, that I will send you the link to on my page for your listeners. And that's going to be for release and relaxation. And that kind of leads me to my next thing, which any one, whether they have access to therapists or, you know, practitioners to help them with this birth experience, I think that the best thing that that you can do for yourself, which is absolutely free is to make time for yourself, especially being a pregnant person. If you have, you know, other kids too. And that's, that's hard for you, finding you're you're coming community, whether it's your partner, your parents, your friends, in which you can have some time for yourself alone, ideally, once a day, maybe it's even after the kids go to bed. But taking some time to meditate, honestly, is such a empowering thing that we can do for ourselves during pregnancy. And especially as we're kind of ramping up into birth in that third trimester. Where, you know, we tend to not everybody's the same again, but we tend to in that third trimester start to get discouraged that we didn't know that we had. And tapping into that is such an important facet of having an empowered birth. So if you start to notice that empowerment, coming up, doing a meditation where you just bring that on, even listening to some music for five minutes, relaxing yourself doing a progressive relaxation, so that's relaxing yourself from your head to your toes, or your toes to your head, you can look up a million of them on YouTube, you know, just giving yourself a relaxation, and then taking some time to feel what it feels like to be empowered, taking some time to imagine what it's going to be like to meet your baby. And let those tears stream out. And let yourself get really emotionally connected to that feeling. Take some time to just put your hand on your belly and, and talk to your baby and know that you guys are in this together and you are a team. Also having people in your court people on your side that are going to actually be there for you during the birth process. If your partner is afraid, get someone that is going to feel you know, more supportive for you and your birth process. But getting people on your side, telling them what your birth goals are. If you're if your goals are that you want to feel empowered, and that you want to feel that you are in control of self, tell them that help them to help you with that. Have conversations, talk about your fears, get to know your fears, get to know your goals, right? I mean, all of that if you can find a friend, a partner, a sister, a mom, someone to talk that through with and just reinforce that within yourself, that takes$0 Anyone can do that. But it's really about spending some time with yourself, taking some time with yourself to explore what these different things are.

Katie Kurpanek: 1:08:42

So if people are like I am right now basically on the edge of my seat, like okay, I love Dana, I need to work with her. What can people do? The the free meditation link that you just referenced will be in the show notes or the episode description. So anyone who's curious about that can just, you know, click on the show notes, and it will be there as well as any other resources that you want to send my way. And then contact information for yourself. But also, just putting in this plug to you are one of my community partners. So anyone who joins the Patreon community for this podcast, so patreon.com/all Things sustainable, that community has so many perks, and one of them is access to a whole like discounts bundle with like 20 plus different community members that are obsessing on like sustainable shops and services. And so anyway, you are one of those and you're offering all of my patrons a discount for a 90 minute session with yourself for their first time and I think that is so huge. Definitely jump on that listeners if you want to start working with Dana, but what else do you want to share with anyone who wants to get into touch with you.

Dana McCausland: 1:10:01

So I'm not only do I so that meditation that I have on my website for release and relaxation, that's not just for pregnant people or Hypno birthing. That's for anyone. And I also actually have I have some meditations I can't remember what I priced those at. I think they're 15 to $20. But I have a downloadable meditation for pregnancy as well. I have four or five different meditations, but that one specifically for pregnancy too, if if people kind of just want to see what it's a little taste of what it could be like to be in a hypnosis session with me, it's definitely just a taste, but you can get to know my cadence, my voice, my style, if I am nails on a chalkboard to you or if I am, you know, helping you to sink into your, you know, your mattress or your couch effortlessly, whatever that looks like. But yep, honestly, my website is a great resource. I have a ton of information about what hypnotherapy looks like, what my coaching services look like, what Hypno birthing looks like my story, you can always have a I always do free 15 minute consultations. So if there are specific burning questions that I did not answer that someone wants to know, they do not have to book a session with me in order to get those answered, we can have a phone call that honestly I usually end up going way over because I have a problem more so spending too much time with clients then being like, Oh, your time is up. So um, yeah, that's, that's always a resource to to just one on one. Ask me whatever questions you're interested in as well.

Katie Kurpanek: 1:11:39

That's so fantastic. Oh, my goodness, Dana, you are amazing. I'm so thankful that you were on this podcast and just that you're doing, what you're doing and that you're sharing all of this strength and empowerment, and wisdom into the world. Thank you for what you're doing. And thank you for being here.

Dana McCausland: 1:11:57

Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for validating me and my practice and I am honored. This is such an awesome first time podcast experience as a little nervous. Not gonna lie. But that this has been awesome. Thanks so much for having me.

Katie Kurpanek: 1:12:10

Of course, you did incredible and maybe you'll be back some time. I mean, we could talk so much longer about all

Dana McCausland: 1:12:16

absolutely we could get more in depth in our birth stories and everything. So I would love that.

Katie Kurpanek: 1:12:23

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed today's episode, and if you did, I would love it if you would share it with a friend. Spread the word over your social media, or simply leave a review wherever you subscribe to this podcast to help others find it as well. Thank you so much for being here. I'll catch you next time.